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    posted a message on TinyTip v2 (official thread)
    Quote from Phanx »

    All I meant was that TinyTip seems to be still in development stages. The first posts of this thread seem to indcate that as well, with words like "temporary" and "yet" thrown around a lot. My tooltip isn't something I want to be fiddling with all the time; I want to set it up once and not have to worry about it, so I'm waiting until the addon reaches a point where I can do that. Buffs/debuffs are an example of a feature that isn't finished, that I'm not willing to switch back from a working addon to do without. It certainly wasn't meant to be offensive, and there's no need to get all up in arms about it... o_O


    Well, a lot of addons will probably be changing when 2.4 comes out, hopefully TipTac included. That's where a lot of the "temporary" stuff comes into play. As for "yet", there are a lot of different features I am working on. But from what you're saying, you think buff/debuff icons are essential to a "complete" tooltip addon. Is there any else that you feel you "could not do without"?

    Oh, and note I'm always trying to get a feel for the userbase. This isn't intended as an attack of "omg my addon is so awesome, you're unreasonable".
    Posted in: General AddOns
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    posted a message on TinyTip v2 (official thread)
    Quote from Laibcoms »

    Umm, sorry, but what do you mean by "feature complete"?


    Now now. I hope that isn't a hint of fanboism. I hate fanboism. To me, an addon is never "complete" unless it's a very simple addon, hence why I asked what he meant by "complete" -- what he probably considers "crucial features" that the current TinyTip is lacking. We all are open to our opinions.

    Quote from Leekle »

    I would like to get some clarification on the install process for TinyTip2. After my previous post, Thrae mentioned installing via the WAU, which I've been using religiously for almost 6 months now. Looking through the thread I see people commenting on installing WITH and WITHOUT externals.

    After Thrae's comment, I once again completely removed my TinyTip folders and any associated .wtf files. With my first install, I installed TinyTip and TinyTipOptions directly through the WAU 'WITHOUT' externals. Doing this produced no error messages, but I was getting the default Blizzard Tooltips. I was able to enter the in-game config menu with /tinytip, but none of the changes were reflected in the tooltip.

    Going with the assumption that I had mis-understood the post saying to install WITHOUT externals, I then did another clean install WITH externals. TinyTip2 now works, complete with working in-game menu, but I'm back to getting two lines of guild names in the ToolTip, although ToT is working fine with just one line.


    There was a bug where only installing the modules as externals would allow them to work properly. This bug has since been fixed. You should only install without externals when you want to download the modules separately (you may notice TinyTipBasic, etc. listed as well -- these are modules).

    Quote from Leekle »

    Am I missing something about the install process or is it possible there might be some conflict with ImmersionRP causing guild names to be shown twice?

    This is a bug with ImmersionRP -- it's either adding a guildline instead of changing the existing one. Depending on how it's doing this, I might not be able to use TinyTip to "fix it". I could add an option to TinyTip to remove the game's default guildline, but a better solution would be for ImmersionRP to fix the bug and/or give an option not to add a guildline. I believe MyRoleplay already has this option, after a similiar problem.
    Posted in: General AddOns
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    posted a message on TinyTip v2 (official thread)
    Quote from Phanx »

    I'm currently using TipTac, but do plan on returning to TinyTip (or at least giving it a try) once the new version reaches a state closer to "feature complete".


    What do you mean by feature complete?


    With regard to debuff display, I don't think just adding a line of text to the tooltip would be sufficient. I currently have applied debuffs shown as icons anchored to the top of the tooltip and scaled up. This comes in handy when tanking multiple mobs on my druid; I can mouse over the lot and see very quickly if any mobs are missing Lacerate, and which mobs will have Lacerate drop off soon. Looking for a line of text in the tooltip with this information would be much slower. I imagine warriors, warlocks, and anyone else who wants to keep debuffs up on multiple mobs would feel the same way. Icons are easy to recognize at a glance, and already have familiar cues for indicating stack counts and time remaining.


    The idea was in response to this feature request: http://code.google.com/p/thrae-wow/issues/detail?id=8. I expanded it because I thought others would find it useful. But for now I'll just include the simple solution (letting the tooltip display count of buffs / debuffs given as a string) and put re-implementing icons as a higher priority. It wasn't saying I wasn't going to do it, I was just musing about new features even 1.x didn't have.

    Something I'd like to see for curable debuffs, that I haven't seen done in any mod that generally displays buffs and debuffs as icons, is the ability to show curable debuffs on friendly targets as a solid colored square, similar to Decursive's display. Unlike your applied debuffs, you won't necessarily know what type of debuff a specific icon belongs to. ... A solid block of color, on the other hand, is immediately recognizable; you could put a C, D, P, or M inside the square to make it work for people with low or no color perception too.

    This is a good idea, because textures, even scaled down (especially when scaled, an extra drawing process) subtract from the overall performance of your UI. It can be a negilible amount to some systems, or a threatening amount to others. TinyTip is based off of performance without giving up features, so if there's a feature I can add to make buff/debuff dislpay hurt your CPU/GPU less, that's a plus. The texture concerns were why I was thinking of a purely text-based approach, but I can see merit in this too.

    Tooltips attached to the mouse can easily impact the performance of medium to low-end systems since they aren't like the rest of the UI, which is mostly static. Tooltips are suppose to flow freely across the UI, possibly appearing and disappearing quickly, changing often, etc.
    Posted in: General AddOns
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    posted a message on TinyTip v2 (official thread)
    Quote from Sinzar »

    Two things the new Tinytip is still missing from the old is Buffs/Debuffs showing on the Tooltip, and being able to stop re-coloring guild names based on their relation to the player.

    Are either of those scheduled to be added in?


    Yeah, now that I have a temp. TinyTipOptions out of the way, I can work on features again. Instead of Buff/Debuff icons, I was thinking of allowing text-based buffs / debuffs. Even if you increase the scale of the buffs / debuff icons, they're still hard to position on the tooltip without obscuring other things, but you need the icons big enough so you can recognize them. So what I was thinking of was three options:

    1. Show Poison/Curse/Disease based on what you can cure. Example:

    Name
    Info
    Poison (3) (left side) Curse (1) (right side)

    These may be abbreviated to "Po" and "Cu" if they take up too much room.

    2. Show missing buffs based on class. Example:

    Name
    Info
    Missing: M, Th

    (Mark of the Wild, Thorns)

    2. Alternatively, you could specify a buff / debuff string and it'll show you the number applied on the target, along with your abbreviation (or lack thereof). Example:

    "Sunder Armor" = "Su"

    Name
    Info
    Su (3)

    "Sunder Armor" = nil

    Name
    Info
    Sunder Armor (3)


    Now I could add buffs / debuffs icon code back in as a separate module, but I'd like to work on this first. I think it'd be more useful (albiet localizations needed).
    Posted in: General AddOns
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    posted a message on TinyTip v2 (official thread)
    TinyTip is a simple tooltip modifier aimed at users that want things simple. The design principle is simplicity, compatibility, and stability without sacrificing features. All modules TinyTip uses can be, by themselves, their own standalone addons (checked out by themselves), allowing people who only want one or two features to not have to bother with the others. The two-step modular approach also allows increased compatibility and stability through allowing the user to truly disable code that may be causing problems while awaiting a fix to the issue. No large libraries are used, allowing the code to be self-contained (the only library used so far is Dongle, which is very, very tiny and easily maintainable by anyone).

    Bugs, Feature Requests, Etc. should go to my Google SVN's Trac system. This thread is intended for general discussion only. You do not need a Gmail account to use Google Code, just a Google account or Google Code account (which are freely available). You can request updates on the issues you post / star be emailed to whatever address you want. All updates to issues are emailed to my Gmail account, which I check hourly. This allows the best tracking of bugs and other issues.

    Bugs and Feature Requests go here: http://code.google.com/p/thrae-wow/issues/list
    Bugs and Feature Requests go here: http://code.google.com/p/thrae-wow/issues/list
    Bugs and Feature Requests go here: http://code.google.com/p/thrae-wow/issues/list

    old thread (now locked): http://www.wowace.com/forums/index.php?topic=11443.0


    Quote from: OrionShock on March 10, 2008, 10:21:07 pm
    Thrae: none of the modules have any SVs so how exactly is the Stand alone modules suposed to work w/o a SV? Unless they are only provided for those of us that like to disembed?


    There are multiple reasons the modules are developed as externals.

    1. All modules can work standalone. TinyTip is technically not required except if you want that in-game options menu and a centralized database. This works out for the super-tweakers or those that just one feature and don't care about the rest.

    2. LoD means the code isn't loaded until needed. This will work best with future modules, some of which may be big and require "hacked" libs (still trying to figure out if/how I can implement non-loading libs internally), and may only need to be loaded on certain conditions.

    3. No coder is perfect. The "multi-stage" modular approach I'm using can allow users to easily thwart issues until the next update, and deal with issues in case, say, a deranged pizza delivery truck leaves me in the hospital for months (use your imagination if the driver or the truck itself is deranged). The module can be made external and then disabled, preventing the error from popping up continuously or tainting other parts of TinyTip.

    4. It's also a very easy way to completely disable modules if you don't need them, instead of the usual "soft disabling".

    Just to note, the internal modules are setup such that the code will not load, period, if they exist as external modules. So you don't have to go around deleting / renaming / moving directories. Just check out the modules as their own addons and they'll seamlessly integrate with TinyTip if it exists.
    Posted in: General AddOns
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    posted a message on TinyTip v2
    To cause less confusion, I made an official thread at http://www.wowace.com/forums/index.php?topic=11896.0 . This thread will now be locked. Thanks Kael.
    Posted in: General AddOns
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    posted a message on TinyTip v2
    Quote from Sinzar »

    Two things the new Tinytip is still missing from the old is Buffs/Debuffs showing on the Tooltip, and being able to stop re-coloring guild names based on their relation to the player.

    Are either of those scheduled to be added in?


    Yeah, now that I have a temp. TinyTipOptions out of the way, I can work on features again. Instead of Buff/Debuff icons, I was thinking of allowing text-based buffs / debuffs. Even if you increase the scale of the buffs / debuff icons, they're still hard to position on the tooltip without obscuring other things, but you need the icons big enough so you can recognize them. So what I was thinking of was three options:

    1. Show Poison/Curse/Disease based on what you can cure. Example:

    Name
    Info
    Poison (3) (left side) Curse (1) (right side)

    These may be abbreviated to "Po" and "Cu" if they take up too much room.

    2. Show missing buffs based on class. Example:

    Name
    Info
    Missing: M, Th

    (Mark of the Wild, Thorns)

    2. Alternatively, you could specify a buff / debuff string and it'll show you the number applied on the target, along with your abbreviation (or lack thereof). Example:

    "Sunder Armor" = "Su"

    Name
    Info
    Su (3)

    "Sunder Armor" = nil

    Name
    Info
    Sunder Armor (3)


    Now I could add buffs / debuffs icon code back in as a separate module, but I'd like to work on this first. I think it'd be more useful (albiet localizations needed).
    Posted in: General AddOns
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    posted a message on TinyTip v2
    Quote from Leekle »

    I just wanted to post to say that since I first used TinyTip (seems like ages ago), it has been one of my favorite addons. Ever since the re-code started I've been patiently updating and watching the work in progress. As it is, I'm currently using TinyTip and TinyTipModules and it works fine for me. As Thrae has stated, there is no gui yet, but that's fine by me.

    The only, very minor, issue I have is that guild names and ToT are shown twice. Thinking this was an issue with my old wtf files, I removed them and re-installed TinyTip, but I still get the double guild/ToT messages. I'm pretty sure this is a known issue and I'm waiting patiently for the updates.

    Great work on this add-on Thrae. Don't go nuts over those who seem to think that you get paid to code add-ons and keep up the good work.


    You should have updated to the newer version of TinyTip a long time ago. A lot of bugs were addressed. TinyTipModules was integrated into TinyTip, with the option to separate the old TinyTip's functionality into separate addons. The latest version on WAU / files.wowace.com is stable to my knowledge, and TinyTipOptions is also available for use with the new version.
    Posted in: General AddOns
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    posted a message on TinyTip v2
    Quote from OrionShock »

    ok.. so this might help explain some of the issues here some of you have been experiancing.

    http://files.wowace.com/TinyTip/TinyTip.zip

    ^^ This file includes, TinyTipBasic, TinyTipPositioning and TinyTipTargets.
    *WAU, "With Externals", will download all the modules in one folder as a single addon.
    This is what most people should be doing.

    If you use WAU "WithOut Externals" then these modules are not included and you'll need to download them sperately. This done properly should install all needed libs if used.


    Well, anyone who downloads "without externals" should know what they're getting into. As for the issues, they were a legitimate bug with internal modules that was fixed earlier today (the fix was ready yesterday, but I had internet trouble). It's a pain for me to have to copy the external modules from the Addons folder to the desktop, test, then copy them back, so I usually have them external myself. I'm going to be more considerate from now on, considering non-external is the way most people will use it and are suppose to use it.

    Quote from OrionShock »

    Thrae: none of the modules have any SVs so how exactly is the Stand alone modules suposed to work w/o a SV? Unless they are only provided for those of us that like to disembed?


    There are multiple reasons the modules are developed as externals.

    1. All modules can work standalone. TinyTip is technically not required except if you want that in-game options menu and a centralized database. This works out for the super-tweakers or those that just one feature and don't care about the rest.

    2. LoD means the code isn't loaded until needed. This will work best with future modules, some of which may be big and require "hacked" libs (still trying to figure out if/how I can implement non-loading libs internally), and may only need to be loaded on certain conditions.

    3. No coder is perfect. The "multi-stage" modular approach I'm using can allow users to easily thwart issues until the next update, and deal with issues in case, say, a deranged pizza delivery truck leaves me in the hospital for months (use your imagination if the driver or the truck itself is deranged). The module can be made external and then disabled, preventing the error from popping up continuously or tainting other parts of TinyTip.

    4. It's also a very easy way to completely disable modules if you don't need them, instead of the usual "soft disabling".

    Just to note, the internal modules are setup such that the code will not load, period, if they exist as external modules. So you don't have to go around deleting / renaming / moving directories. Just check out the modules as their own addons and they'll seamlessly integrate with TinyTip if it exists.
    Posted in: General AddOns
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    posted a message on TinyTip v2
    TinyTipOptions has been placed on the SVN. It should be available on WAU shortly. All TinyTip v0.2 addons were updated to reflect this change.

    This is a temporary copy of TinyTipOptions, using the old Dewdrop method you may be familiar with. Come 2.4, TinyTipOptions will be recoded once again to use Blizzard's new interface.

    TinyTipFu is not my addon and may not work. It will also become obsolete with 2.4, so I'm not recoding it.

    Also added functionality in the main TinyTip addon:
    - Scale
    - HideInFrames
    - HideInCombat


    Yeah, it wasn't originally suppose to take me over 2 weeks just to recode TinyTipOptions, but my RL job is getting more and more intense, leaving me with less and less downtime. I didn't exactly have time most days to even think of addons and WoW. Eh, hindsight is always 100%.
    Posted in: General AddOns
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    posted a message on TinyTip v2
    Quote from Funkydude »

    Wait for the 2.4 config options? ;p


    That's why I'm working on just revamping the Dewdrop options and letting people use that for the time being. Most of the time is spent restructuring the various localizations anyway and working with a new database paradigm (Dongle).
    Posted in: General AddOns
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    posted a message on TinyTip v2

    1. My work on revamping the options menu is 50% complete. There's a lot of old, nasty code to go through.
    2. TinyTip will now work properly even if you don't have its modules as externals (IE, you have it all by itself). Did you know GetAddonInfo(name) will return name even if the addon doesn't exist? Bizarre.
    Posted in: General AddOns
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    posted a message on TinyTip v2
    To edit options without TinyTip or TinyTipOptions, do the following:

    1. Check out the module as a separate addon (IE, "TinyTipPositioning").
    2. Edit StandAloneConfig.lua in the addon folder. The instructions are included in
    the file. Editing a lua file may seem difficult, but with the instructions it's
    really not that hard. Make sure you include a comma after every entry, that's all.

    ...I probably should include that in a README.TXT file.
    Posted in: General AddOns
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    posted a message on TinyTip v2
    Quote from KnThrak »

    I read something in the General forum about the tagging, apparently it is possible but the updaters would need to be changed to use it and the mod-authors would need to start using the tags ofc?


    http://svn.wowace.com/wowace/tags/TinyTip/1.4.12/
    http://svn.wowace.com/wowace/tags/TinyTipExtras/1.4.12/
    http://svn.wowace.com/wowace/tags/TinyTipOptions/1.4.12/
    http://svn.wowace.com/wowace/tags/TipLib/

    Note: svn.wowace.com is a mirror and may not be updated yet for the tags.
    Posted in: General AddOns
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    posted a message on TinyTip v2
    Since I'm not satisfied with the configuration options available right now, I'm planning on just re-releasing TinyTipOptions with its old & current Dewdrop implementation after a bit of cleanup and tweaking (one big thing -- make it a FuBar addon so it can have a minimap/FuBar icon to click). That way I can focus on more modules and more features, until WoW 2.4 comes out, which will contain new addon configuration code. Also, Ace3Config is still undergoing some development. Building options menus are a pain.

    I'm sorry I can't code fast enough for you all. I will chastise myself with my own belt later on. I can't fix the old TinyTip and make a new TinyTip at the same time, and really, I was embarrassed by my own old code -- I needed to eschew it. It does not follow all the current principles and experience that I have demonstrated with the new TinyTip. Most of it I had to scrap to continue with TinyTip. Just because something appears to be working, or working for you, doesn't mean it's in good condition.

    I can't make everyone happy. No one can. Since I don't code addons for fame, I cling to the nihilistic ideal of providing something beautiful and useful to you all. It's my masochistic side -- coding for fame is probably so much more rewarding to one's ego. Therefore, to code, I need to set boundaries for myself. You were all very upset at the current lack of an in-game configuration menu with the new version. I understand that, and I weighed it against my options. I decided you could all wait a week or so while I continue to improve TinyTip and set the structure needed for making a new/changing the old TinyTipOptions. I thought the users of Wowace would allow me the pleasure of mass-testing a stable version while I continued to work on the in-game options menu, among other things. This was what I expected out of this community, a community dedicated to development. I suppose my expectations were too high. We all use WAU to grab files compiled from a SVN, a development system. No one can guarantee these files to be 100% stable or include all the features you hope for -- if that were the case, there'd be no need for the SVN at all. I was simply making use of the tools available, and the community available. If you feel that is a misuse, then I say that is a better topic for an alternative thread.

    As said before, there are alternatives to TinyTip. If TinyTip is not to your liking, then I suggest you take them. Some people mentioned "CowTip". TinyTip is dedicated to taking the least resources possible. CowTip was specifically designed to provide the most functionality possible, sometimes disregarding the performance hits that come with it -- hence the name Cow-Tip, a tooltip that's both big on resource usage, features, and complexity, opposite to TinyTip, a tooltip that's simple and tiny. TinyTip will never be like CowTip, as they are polar opposites in core design. TinyTip will always be simple to configure (when I get TinyTipOptions back up anyway), even while the features increase. However, what TinyTip will never do (at least on its own) is provide seemingly unlimited flexibility of something like CowTip, as one cannot increase flexibility without increasing resource usage and complexity.

    Not to say there's anything wrong with that or CowTip itself, I'm just illustrating a point -- if you want something that strives for simplicity and optimal performance, get TinyTip. If you want maximum flexibility, get CowTip. If you don't like ckknight or his Rock framework, or frameworks in general, get TinyTip. If you don't like me, get CowTip. This is not me being cynical -- it's just plain logic (unless you consider logic to be cynical).

    Thanks for your time. Back to work.
    Posted in: General AddOns
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