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    posted a message on Addon loading procedures... revamp? What do you think?
    I don't think there's a single addon left out there that doesn't use a library.
    Whoa there! None of my addons use libraries (8-10 i don't count). They aren't localized either.

    I don't think loading times is an issue at all. You put more load on the system, expect it to take longer.

    Duplicate library loading can't be 'solved' unless you put the libraries in the addons folder as /AddOns/libMyShinyLibrary-1.6/ (note the version, I think this is totally doable) as separate addons and put dependancies of them in your addons. I don't think it's a hassle at all to manage and for all the one click update done people (lazy) it would be no hassle either because an updater can be made to spot unused dependancies and remove them if you would so desire.
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on IRC - what where and how
    alright well, http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#userregistration
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on IRC - what where and how
    so, did you try /motd?
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Forum Titles
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Luggage
    Nimbal, do you hang out in irc?
    Posted in: General AddOns
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    posted a message on Luggage
    Hi. I've been using baggins for a few years now but this is a serious competitor :O I'm looking into it atm.

    Things I found (with 1.05):
    1. When I create bags it doesn't take the content of the bag settings (name, icon) but it uses the last used. This makes my bags "reset" as they all get the same icon and no name if I don't input the name every time I edit the bag.
    2. It might be nice to have the bag rule editing inside the "Edit Bag" window. I'm not too fond of doing configuration with menu's.
    3. When you create a new tab it automatically creates a new untitled bag. When I then remove that tab the bag stays.
    4. It would be nice to have my options global across all characters. I don't feel like reconfiguring for every character.
    5. Is there a way to hide the bag bar and still be able to edit bags/bars? I just use my keybindings to open all my bags at once, I never click just one category.
    Posted in: General AddOns
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    posted a message on Considerations about WoWACE and Curse merging
    I disagree. :D

    Edit: It's mostly other people going "make me this" or "give me a list of that" and then me going "no. do it yourself and we can help you do it. and "gtfo l2google nab".

    But let's not derail the thread any further. You are welcome to make a thread about it.
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Considerations about WoWACE and Curse merging
    Quote from HunterZ
    Indy is pretty consistently a troll in my experience :\

    Hey, that you want to bend the meaning of the word trolling doesn't mean I have to agree with that. I'm just giving my opinions on whatever. Tough shit if you disagree. Tell me why and we have a conversation going. Don't only point fingers and ignore me.
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Considerations about WoWACE and Curse merging
    Quote from Arzach
    Ok, I'll try to be calm and polite, but if you're happy with what's happening, don't read ahead.

    Let me summarize and let's see if I have everything clear:
    1) Ace is a "developer community" it's right in the logo, top left of the page)
    2) Ace had a massive growth over the time, way unexpected maybe, but nonetheless an incredible success
    3) the amount of money needed to run and maintain it is no more affordable by normal means

    -> a solution had to be found

    Proposed solution: migrate and join Curse, since they founded Ace in the past.

    This is where all started from, if I got it right.

    Now, however, the problem arises, and I'll try to divide them in sections:

    Section 1: Curse policy and Curse "behavior".
    Curse isn't a no-profit organization, it's a company. I'll refrain to start consideration about Curse owners, because it's really unimportant. Curse is a company, so it have to make profit. Where do profit arises from ? Well, Curse have many (too many imho) advertisements, and that's a HUGE money income. No problem, it's market. They offer a service, it's their right to have incomes.
    Problem is: why ppl go to Curse site ? Simple: because Curse hosts the addons, so developers willing to spread their work will post there, and users will go there to get them. Without the developers the users wouldn't go, no web pagehits, no advertisements, no money. So basically they're USING developers to make money. That's perfectly fine, but what about the developers that did NOT wanted to post on Curse and they used another, free, open way to distribute their work ? Who had the right to move them to Curse ? Noone in my opinion. The ones that are caring about this will soon remove their work from Curse, with more problems and angriness from the users. Who's to blame about this ? Think about it.

    Curse updater:
    It's bloated, bugged, it went tru massive beta phases and STILL it have inconsistent behaviors. It have features that re-enable themselves (autoupdater) and it send you to Curse web pages when you try to disable them. It doesn't support basic things like libraries unpacking (afaik) and it doesn't give enough control to the user. Its sources are not public, leaving doubts to its real behavior (I don't believe it's a trojan, but noone can prove it) and it uses a proprietary protocol, trying to block 3rd party updaters. Last but not least it's SLOW. Oh... and let's not forget that its promised MacOS version is promised but not even close to be considered an alpha release (from the reports I had). And let's not talk about UNIX users, I tried to use it tru Wine and I had a good laugh.

    Timely operation:
    When had the transition to be done ? When WoW 3.0.1 patch is about to come of course ! As is exactly when people will NEED to update ACE mods. So basically forcing them to use the new Curse updater or be screwed. And for MacOS users to be screwed in any case. Yes, you CAN update your addons manually, but try to do it and unpack libraries. You have to be a developer to do it right. Try to download a "basic" addon like Omen, you'll find yourself with a very outdated version. Sure, in the transition there are always some issues, but NOT if you work in IT. I do, and we're trained to let them NOT HAPPEN, or we're just fired. BTW, the very first thing we learn is: keep the new and the old service running in parallel for at least 15 days. Try the new service and THEN, after a ton of messages and warnings, do the final teardown of the old system.

    All this can't be due to random events. Trust me, it's not a random crap. Someone decided that the transition had to be done before WotLK, no matter what. If possible before 3.0.1 patch. And that in order to have a lot of new customers installing the new Curse thing, because only with that they could fix their issues.

    Curse Client (it's a client, not a simple updater...) development:
    Closed, based on wxWidgets. Mmmm... why not Java ? Java is portable, can have good UIs, a Java application can mimic perfectly the UI of the horst it's running into. Go check OpenOffice. BUT Java apps are quite easy to reverse-engineer, as is the proprietary protocol used for updates and more would had been exposed. Isn't it ? Moreover the only released client (windows) despite its beta phase is still lacking of features and its behavior is far from good. It's not even a release candidate if you want my opinion.
    I suggested a friend to try it, and the first thing she said was: "luck I stopped it before my whole addons folder was erased".

    Curse Client "premium" services:
    See point 1. The client is able to let you update your addons without visiting Curse web pages, hence lowering their pagehits and lowering the advertisements incomes. Hence Curse HAD to find a way to have an equivalent income from those using the client. This is economy, baby. But still... I'm using an updater to get FREE stuff (the addons), why should I pay YOU? I'd gladly pay someone else instead. Or at least I'd like to be able to choose. Instead of subscriptions a real marketing analysis would had suggested to push ads to the clients, with a premium service removing the ads. Eudora mail client had that for years. Premium service to enable features is just... CRAP.

    Curse "syndication":
    Addons should be syndicated by Curse... let me skip this point because i could become offensive. I've seen so much crap on Curse web site I hardly believe they're able to syndicate when they have to change underpants. Come on, they're not even able to check their web pages for browsers compatibility... On MacOS I have to use Firefox 'cuz Safari can't render their pages correctly... and Safari is not a piece of junk.

    The missed opportunity (or the short minded boss):
    Yes, in the whole thing you missed a f***ing great opportunity, to make money and to do something really important. You forgot to analyze the problem. However I'll just outline the problem, since I'd like to propose MY solution to the open-source developer community (btw, Curse is NOT a community, is a COMPANY) and to the computer science academic community. I think we can get a good number of public and private investors, hence I'll keep the idea for myself right now.

    Let's state the problem:
    - addons: made by small development groups, short snippets of code, usually under open-source, free copyright systems.
    - addons developers: in total, a huge number of people, including developers, translators, etc.
    - users: many, in the order of 100.000 to 1.000.000
    - downloading frequency: from once per day to once per week.
    - total bandwidth used: incredible
    - total storage used: not so dramatic, but still high

    Solution: none *right now*, beside the brute-force one: central distribution, lot of hard disks, lot of bandwidth. Bound to be extremely expensive. Soooo, there is space for what we call IMPROVEMENT. It's a strange thing that goes together with forgotten ideas like *research* and *innovation*. But you missed the train.

    Anyway, to summarize: I'm totally pissed off with what's happening. I'll be forced to use Curse Client as well and this makes my stomach hurt. But the pain will always make me remember what was the Ace logo: "developer community". Thanks guys, you contributed to create it, and then you've sold it and killed it. You should be proud. At least I hope you'll get a good cash from this, as 30 coins aren't enough.


    wowace wasn't founded by Curse and if it were then you'd have no say in anything anyway =P, it was founded by Turan, handed over to Kaelten which then received server sponsoring from Curse (good investment imo) and now works for Curse.

    Wether addon authors want Curse to profit from their work is totally their decision, not that of Curse and it has always been so.

    You are welcome to start a website for addon authors to put their addons on yourself. Use whatever distribution model you see fit. The reality is YOU would be the one that would have missed the train (by years).

    Lets see.. oh the updater; It wasn't part (and should never have been or never even was?) of wowace in the beginning. If you can't update your addons you SUCK at computers. The whole "disembedding" thing is a dead horse anyway (and it always has been. making a problem out of something that isn't) so thats not an argument to need addon updaters.

    I'm not happy with whats happening either but thats not going to change what happens. It's their site and not yours. Do wtf you want with your addons, I moved them off wowace a long time ago because I disagreed with the way it was heading. I'm still here to discuss.
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on BetterQuest
    There is no wiki page for this addon, so I'm requesting one now.
    Posted in: General AddOns
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    posted a message on Patch 3.0 protocols for addon updates
    Just make a wrath branch. Who cares about people that cant get it? If you want it learn how to get it. At least; I'm not going to hand it to you on a silver platter just because you are incompetent. Show me the money and I'll cater >:D
    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on simpe interface
    "you guys give me a list"

    "you go f*ck yourself"

    Posted in: General Chat
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    posted a message on Yatba - Yet Another Timer Bar Addon - official thread
    screenshot! wiki!
    Posted in: General AddOns
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    posted a message on Data Exchange Manager (Need Feedback)
    Born out of some kind of need I guess. The need to have whatever your raid leader wants you to and not care about what it actually does? Not wanting to look at what it actually is, how to install it?

    in short: l2addon dumbshiat users.

    in less short: I think this idea is totally out of scope for wow interface addons and besides that storing an entire addon in a saved variable and then just "load string"'ing it is not very attractive. If my raid leaders want me to install this ill /gquit.

    Sorry. :-)
    Posted in: Addon Ideas
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